Comments on: Separation of church (the Bible) and state (public schools) http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/ First year teacher extraordinaire! Sat, 18 Jul 2009 02:33:40 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: VirusHead » Mutating bits of contagious discourse, because language is a virus. » Blog Archive » Blog Against Theocracy Bits 1-15 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-30 VirusHead » Mutating bits of contagious discourse, because language is a virus. » Blog Archive » Blog Against Theocracy Bits 1-15 Mon, 09 Apr 2007 20:35:02 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-30 [...] The Learning Curve: “These classes, however secular they say they are, endorse one particular religion (the article notes that many such classes focus only on the positive influence of the Bible and ignore its negative influence). I would be less up in arms about a class on world religion that included multiple religious texts as sources, but I still feel that those are classes that should be reserved for college. Partly because I feel that finding teachers who are able to teach multiple religious texts in a balanced manner is difficult, but mostly because I feel like a lot of schools don’t have the resources to support core instruction, let alone a class that focuses on religion.” [...] [...] The Learning Curve: “These classes, however secular they say they are, endorse one particular religion (the article notes that many such classes focus only on the positive influence of the Bible and ignore its negative influence). I would be less up in arms about a class on world religion that included multiple religious texts as sources, but I still feel that those are classes that should be reserved for college. Partly because I feel that finding teachers who are able to teach multiple religious texts in a balanced manner is difficult, but mostly because I feel like a lot of schools don’t have the resources to support core instruction, let alone a class that focuses on religion.” [...]

]]> By: VirusHead » Mutating bits of contagious discourse, because language is a virus. » Blog Archive » The Posts Against Theocracy http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-29 VirusHead » Mutating bits of contagious discourse, because language is a virus. » Blog Archive » The Posts Against Theocracy Mon, 09 Apr 2007 16:08:19 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-29 [...] the f-ed up cousin of Jimmy Dean (at MPS)Vagabond ScholarRon’s BlogJourneys with JoodThe Learning CurvePissed in NYC (at MPS)This *is* it.Tangled up in Blue GuyA Stitch in HasteOne Act in the Eternal [...] [...] the f-ed up cousin of Jimmy Dean (at MPS)Vagabond ScholarRon’s BlogJourneys with JoodThe Learning CurvePissed in NYC (at MPS)This *is* it.Tangled up in Blue GuyA Stitch in HasteOne Act in the Eternal [...]

]]> By: betmo http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-28 betmo Mon, 09 Apr 2007 13:20:00 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-28 one can only hope that christianity is on the wane here. of course they want to keep america 'religious'- how better to control the population. in that regard, they should be grateful for the influx of predominately catholic immigrants from central and south america. oh- right- they answer to the pope not george bush. my mistake. nice series. one can only hope that christianity is on the wane here. of course they want to keep america ‘religious’- how better to control the population. in that regard, they should be grateful for the influx of predominately catholic immigrants from central and south america. oh- right- they answer to the pope not george bush. my mistake. nice series.

]]> By: Stump Lane | Clever, Hilarious, Informative » Blog Against Theocracy: Jefferson’s Wall http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-27 Stump Lane | Clever, Hilarious, Informative » Blog Against Theocracy: Jefferson’s Wall Mon, 09 Apr 2007 02:01:56 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-27 [...] the f-ed up cousin of Jimmy Dean (at MPS)Vagabond ScholarRon’s BlogJourneys with JoodThe Learning CurvePissed in NYC (at MPS)This is it.Tangled up in Blue GuyA Stitch in HasteOne Act in the Eternal Play [...] [...] the f-ed up cousin of Jimmy Dean (at MPS)Vagabond ScholarRon’s BlogJourneys with JoodThe Learning CurvePissed in NYC (at MPS)This is it.Tangled up in Blue GuyA Stitch in HasteOne Act in the Eternal Play [...]

]]> By: Balls and Walnuts - more than you ever wanted to know » Spend some time in the Blogswarm http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-26 Balls and Walnuts - more than you ever wanted to know » Spend some time in the Blogswarm Sun, 08 Apr 2007 17:24:21 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-26 [...] the f-ed up cousin of Jimmy Dean (at MPS) Vagabond Scholar Ron’s Blog Journeys with Jood The Learning Curve Pissed in NYC (at MPS) This *is* it. Tangled up in Blue Guy A Stitch in Haste One Act in the [...] [...] the f-ed up cousin of Jimmy Dean (at MPS) Vagabond Scholar Ron’s Blog Journeys with Jood The Learning Curve Pissed in NYC (at MPS) This *is* it. Tangled up in Blue Guy A Stitch in Haste One Act in the [...]

]]> By: Clytemnestra http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-25 Clytemnestra Sun, 08 Apr 2007 17:12:08 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-25 <i>It appears as though the author of the Time article, David van Biema (Time’s senior religion writer), believes that public schools should offer a class that teaches the Bible as a textbook because it is such an influential text. He cites examples of Bible references in politics, pop culture (a feature of the magazine article not included in the online version), etc, and uses these as evidence of why knowing the Bible is important (so we can understand these references).</i> It's such a Euro chauvinist view that are among the things that bother me here. By the same token we should then be teaching an entire class each on the Quran, Sun Tzu’s Art of War, and Engels book on Karl Marx. An entire public school class devoted to teaching a religious text when schools, thanks to NCLB, can't really even teach critical thought any more, is little more than evangelism in sheep’s clothing. Instead of looking at the real remedies to gaining back good teachers (like commensurate pay, to compensate for the fact that the best and brightest women are no longer related to two careers (teaching and nursing). We get under funded NCLB which reduces teaching from art and teacher to automaton. (but that’s another soap box) I would much rather we made mandatory geography and full world history (starting with pre-history and Sumar and up today so that our children understand where they fit in the world (that it is not a series of isolated events but that civilizations, including ours, owe every civilization that came before it, that these civilizations were in fact brilliant (we never hear about the Indus Valley civilization), and honesty about how country came to be (hiding the truth does not make you strong, it just makes the disenfranchised angry). We also need mandatory geography and culture classes so we cease this absurd practice of only learning about other countries when we go to war with them. What we don’t need is any additional blurring of church and state. If you want your kid to learn about the Bible, send them to a religious school – but leave me out of paying for it. good post It appears as though the author of the Time article, David van Biema (Time’s senior religion writer), believes that public schools should offer a class that teaches the Bible as a textbook because it is such an influential text. He cites examples of Bible references in politics, pop culture (a feature of the magazine article not included in the online version), etc, and uses these as evidence of why knowing the Bible is important (so we can understand these references).

It’s such a Euro chauvinist view that are among the things that bother me here. By the same token we should then be teaching an entire class each on the Quran, Sun Tzu’s Art of War, and Engels book on Karl Marx. An entire public school class devoted to teaching a religious text when schools, thanks to NCLB, can’t really even teach critical thought any more, is little more than evangelism in sheep’s clothing.

Instead of looking at the real remedies to gaining back good teachers (like commensurate pay, to compensate for the fact that the best and brightest women are no longer related to two careers (teaching and nursing). We get under funded NCLB which reduces teaching from art and teacher to automaton. (but that’s another soap box)

I would much rather we made mandatory geography and full world history (starting with pre-history and Sumar and up today so that our children understand where they fit in the world (that it is not a series of isolated events but that civilizations, including ours, owe every civilization that came before it, that these civilizations were in fact brilliant (we never hear about the Indus Valley civilization), and honesty about how country came to be (hiding the truth does not make you strong, it just makes the disenfranchised angry).

We also need mandatory geography and culture classes so we cease this absurd practice of only learning about other countries when we go to war with them.

What we don’t need is any additional blurring of church and state. If you want your kid to learn about the Bible, send them to a religious school – but leave me out of paying for it.

good post

]]> By: jes http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-24 jes Sun, 08 Apr 2007 04:11:05 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-24 this kind of stuff makes me quezzy and i agree, possibly, if an agnostic, taught multiple religious texts, in an informative/non opinionated manner. then, i MAY begin to accept it. its so hard to raise free thinkers in todays society. brians mom sent the baby a stuffed horse the other day and she says to me "what does it do?" and i began to think how animated/motorized/automatic/etc toys, amougst other things, are these days. children hardly have a chance to be creative. it frustrates me. this kind of stuff makes me quezzy
and i agree, possibly, if an agnostic, taught multiple religious texts, in an informative/non opinionated manner. then, i MAY begin to accept it.

its so hard to raise free thinkers in todays society. brians mom sent the baby a stuffed horse the other day and she says to me “what does it do?” and i began to think how animated/motorized/automatic/etc toys, amougst other things, are these days. children hardly have a chance to be creative.
it frustrates me.

]]> By: Miss Fox http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-23 Miss Fox Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:26:41 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-23 Sadly, it already has passed in many areas - including my home state of North Carolina: "...there are groups (somewhat successfully) trying to get the Bible taught in schools; <a href="http://www.bibleinschools.net/" rel="nofollow">the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools</a>, <a href="http://www.bibleliteracy.org/Site/index2.htm" rel="nofollow">the Bible Literacy Project</a>, and <a href="http://www.bibleintheschools.com/www" rel="nofollow">Bible in the Schools</a>, among others. According the first organization, <a href="http://www.bibleinschools.net/sdm.asp?pg=implemented" rel="nofollow">"The Bible course curriculum has been voted into 373 school districts in 37 states... 190,000 students have already taken our course."</a>" (taken from my previous post on the subject, <a href=http://journal.starwidget.net/2006/04/01/teaching-the-bible/ rel="nofollow">Teaching the Bible?</a>) Sadly, it already has passed in many areas – including my home state of North Carolina:

“…there are groups (somewhat successfully) trying to get the Bible taught in schools; the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools, the Bible Literacy Project, and Bible in the Schools, among others. According the first organization, “The Bible course curriculum has been voted into 373 school districts in 37 states… 190,000 students have already taken our course.”” (taken from my previous post on the subject, Teaching the Bible?)

]]> By: Tengrain http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-22 Tengrain Sat, 07 Apr 2007 15:06:22 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-22 Well said Miss Fox - you hit the issue on the head. What worries me most about this idea (all of it worries me) is who will end up teaching it, should it pass. What values will this person bring to the classroom, even if somehow it could be detangled from religion itself. Regards, Tengrain Well said Miss Fox – you hit the issue on the head. What worries me most about this idea (all of it worries me) is who will end up teaching it, should it pass. What values will this person bring to the classroom, even if somehow it could be detangled from religion itself.

Regards,

Tengrain

]]> By: Miss Fox http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/comment-page-1/#comment-19 Miss Fox Fri, 06 Apr 2007 21:23:28 +0000 http://journal.starwidget.net/2007/04/06/separation-of-church-the-bible-and-state-public-schools/#comment-19 I'm not sure why html doesn't work in the comments... I'll see about that. Regardless, thank you tons for this! Truly, I didn't know about the two covers, and am grateful for the heads up. Adds a bit of depth to the whole thing... I only glanced through the commentary (I intend to read the whole thing later), but I'm curious as to how often Time has done this, if ever before. It does keep the gears turning... I’m not sure why html doesn’t work in the comments… I’ll see about that.

Regardless, thank you tons for this! Truly, I didn’t know about the two covers, and am grateful for the heads up. Adds a bit of depth to the whole thing… I only glanced through the commentary (I intend to read the whole thing later), but I’m curious as to how often Time has done this, if ever before.

It does keep the gears turning…

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